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  1. #1

    Signaless in Seattle

    Model :

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    ISP : [/COLOR]

    Ok, im not in seattle but Texas but the title sounded good.

    So i need some help here. Im quite technical, this is far from my first rodeo but im having just a heck of a time. Here is the scenario.

    26 acres and no wifi/cell signal so working in the back of the property suffers in terms of connectivity and entertainment. I purchased the TL-ANT2415D 15dBi omni directional. I mounted the antenna on the roof straight vertical, ran the wire directly to three different routers. A nighthawk router a linksys router and a trendnet router. None of which offered any results further than just being in the house with the fixed antennas on the router. I played around enough and just decided to use the Linksys WRT54G which is just a fixed 2.4Ghz router (as apposed to the dual band nighthawk)

    I have a TrendNet TEW-L208 wire https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 which is a bit longer than i'd like but the only way i can make it work. Im assuming a 6dbi loss (at best). Regardless, Antenna to wire, wire to router. Plug and play.

    I go about 200 feet out from the antenna and i have a stronger connection to the wifi to the nighthawk router that is sill live in a room on the other side of the house than i do with the 15dBi antenna on the roof. I RMA'd the antenna assuming clearly it has to be the antenna. Second one on the roof and no luck so as a I.T. guy i swallow my pride and call support. We go through a few things and they dig up some documentation saying the antenna should be at a 45 degree angle to the ground. Which sort of defies the point for me but see attached.

    Im lost as to the technical aspects of how a "omni directional" (aka 360 degree) antenna works better angled toward the ground. I can understand the near side or the side angled TOWARD the ground to have a better connection but the far side (angled toward the sky) doesnt seem like the best premise to "omni directional".

    That aside, we also looked at some of the router settings (see attached) We changed channel from "6" to auto to clear up some chatter. Dunno if that will matter but i'll check that AND the combination of the angled antenna. Which again seems quirky at best.

    So in addition to the ideas i pose:

    1) angling the antenna
    2) adjusting the channel

    i'd like folks thoughts on any of the settings in the router screen shots. I obviously flashed the firmware on the linksys router to the dd-wrt version. Gives some more control, im wondering if i can boost power to the antenna (since there doesnt seem to be away to add power to it). I dunno. basically to end the ramble, i need ideas because im not getting any sort of positive gain by having the antenna on the roof. I've read some posts stating that maxing out the "TX" (transmitting antenna?)


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  2. #2
    TX Power: 251 and test

    For outdoor, can use CPE210/220 or CPE510/520 PtP
    PtMP WBS210 or WBS510 with antenna omni 2x2 MIMO
    Last edited by Johnsontp; 02-14-2017 at 06:49.

  3. #3
    For PtMP with omnidirectional antennas the EAP110-Outdoor could be interesting. It includes 2 weatherproof 5dBi-antennas already.
    See this thread: http://forum.tp-link.com/showthread.php?95421-FYI-New-EAP110-Outdoor-AP-with-omnidirectional-antennas-available

    As for the antenna angle: an omnidirectional antenna emits a signal pattern like a flattened donut, hence the recommendation from support to use 45 angle, although I would recommend to mount it somewhere in the middle of the area to be supplied with WiFi in height above head level (~2 to 3 meters above ground).

    But: 26 acres are 105,218 m, right? What kind of antenna does your client device have to send a signal over such a distance? Do you use an iPhone with a Yagi antenna or a laptop with a dish antenna?
    Last edited by R1D2; 02-14-2017 at 12:25.

  4. #4
    Members kevsh is on a distinguished road
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    Signaless??

    You placed the TP-2415D on the roof with how much coaxial cable? @2.4ghz. TP links Omni-directional antenna work very well, I own a 2412D and I get coverage up to .5 mile.
    Last edited by kevsh; 02-14-2017 at 16:20.

  5. #5
    I currently have it connected with a 26' cable so nothing crazy if you have the 12dbi even with 6' cable at 5 miles I should be rocking at 15dbi and 26'. Can you detail out your setup and settings maybe I can replicate that? I appreciate the other replies as well but really I just need connectivity to a phone out about 1/4 of a mile max. I really don't have a location to setup transmitters and receivers.

  6. #6
    Members kevsh is on a distinguished road
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    26' of what type of cable? If this cable is the small diameter like the lmr200 your losing just about all of your receive and transmit signal. The lmr 400 is better and a typical 100mw AP or wireless router should provide 70mw at the antenna after coax losses and this is just transmit figures.
    To over come coax losses I located my AP and TP link 2412D antenna on the tower with a short 2' jumper. Shown below.
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  7. #7
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 is the wire im using. It's mounted just above roofline, cable runs into my attic where the wrt router is located. Getting power to the router would be a challenge if I move the router closer to the antenna hence the long wire. I suppose I can trouble shoot by getting closer with shorter wire if all else fails.

    Maybe a better way to consider this is what is a good method to keep the hook up point (the roof) have an AP there on the roof or just in the attic (maybe 6 foot run at most) then that AP connecting to my main network. Which is what it seems like you have setup in your photo. My biggest concern is just heat in the attic (in texas summer) and power to whatever AP. Router etc. I'd almost certainly have to run electric to it
    Last edited by simplegreen; 02-14-2017 at 20:31.

  8. #8
    Members kevsh is on a distinguished road
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    That is lmr 200 cable its good cable but at 2.4ghz microwave frequencies your losing 2.7 times signal, which is more than half your signal receive and transmit. Most outdoor commercial WiFi units operate using power from the network cable called power over ethernet (POE). I don't think any of the WiFi devices you have, has this built into the units. You can configure a cat5 cable to provide power to a WiFi device. This website describes how to do this http://www.instructables.com/id/Powe...t-PoE-Adapter/. If you do not want to to bother with doing all the wiring you can purchase one of these https://www.amazon.com/Power-Etherne.../dp/B00APVQYA4 and put the whole router or access point in a styro foam shipping box. I used my TP-Link WA5110G in the same type box and this setup has been working 4 years. TP Link has many outdoor AP to choose from in the wifi business selection. This AP http://www.tp-link.com/us/products/d...L-WA7210N.html is a AP that would work outside using POE but you would have to purchase a shorter cable with the proper connectors. I just do not want to see you waste any more money buying extra stuff that is not needed. I understand the goal your looking for the family here has lots of wifi cameras, and there is a lot of acreage that needs to be covered, and we are out in the country so interference is kinda null.
    Last edited by kevsh; 02-14-2017 at 21:20.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by simplegreen View Post
    My biggest concern is just heat in the attic (in texas summer) and power to whatever AP. Router etc. I'd almost certainly have to run electric to it
    That's why I recommended the EAP110-Outdoor.

    1. Antennas are fixed, you will get the full power out of 2x 5dBi antennas with almost no signal loss (except for connectors, ~ 0.3 dBm). If mounted outside, it can cover a large area (how large we will have to find out, it's a brand-new device).

    2. It is powered over passive PoE, so you can provide 24 volts over the data cable with the included power injector for as much as 60 meters (180 foot?) length, so you could even place the AP somewhere distant of the attic on a mast outdoor nearer to where you need the WiFi signal. No separate PoE equipment necessary.

    3. It is weatherproof, has a huge temperature range (-30 to +70 Celsius or -22 to 158 F) and has lightning/ESD protection built in (which you would have to provide separately with your antenna and what should be a real concern if it comes to electricity).

    4. There are also similar devices such as the CPE210/510/220/520 with built-in 9dBi / 13dBi directional antennas or the WBS210/510 with an external 15dBi sector antenna over a very short cable, which could fit as well if you just need to provide the WiFi signal in one direction (but note the beamwidths of those antennas). The TL-WA7210 already has reached EOL, it's successor is CPE210 or CPE220 if available in the US.

    The alternative would be to use an external antenna, external PoE, external router/AP and additional lightning protection. That's far more expensive and much more critical to set up than using an all-in-one device such as one mentioned above.

    For outdoor use I dropped all external antennas such as TL-ANT2424B and TL-ANT2415D used with TL-WA7210 AP and replaced them by CPEs, WBS and (in the future the long-awaited for) EAP110-Outdoor in a PtMP setup. No trouble anymore with signal loss on antenna cables, electricity concerns and protection against harsh environmental conditions. And they cost just somewhat more as an external outdoor antenna alone.
    Last edited by R1D2; 02-15-2017 at 09:59.

  10. #10
    Where can you buy this one R1? The only site i see is Amazon UK. Available in the US?

  11. #11
    Found it only on DE and UK TP-Link sites yet, but these models are for the EU market only (different regulation requirements here, so don't order an EU model).

    However, dealers in Canada already offer it: http://www.pc-canada.com/item/EAP110-OUTDOOR.html

    Please call TP-Link pre-sales in the US to find out wether it is already available at US stores or wether the Canadian version would be suitable also for use in the US (I don't know much about FCC regulations in the US and CA).

    Suitable cable for lightning protection is ToughCable from Ubiquiti or any other outdoor cable with a separate ground wire.
    Last edited by R1D2; 02-21-2017 at 10:29.

  12. #12
    Kevsh, while im waiting for tp-link sales to find out if i can even get the TP-LINK EAP110-Outdoor what AP do you use at your existing antenna?

  13. #13
    Members kevsh is on a distinguished road
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    I use the WA-5110G. Its used for the BBS and WOW server.

  14. #14
    can you shed some light on the enclosure you have the AP in? looks like im going to try to mimic your setup

  15. #15
    Members kevsh is on a distinguished road
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    The main reason I went with the desktop access point was it was cheap in cost and the wa5110g offered a 400milliwatt output with flexibility to use any antenna I wanted too. I do understand FCC rules regarding wifi EIRP levels. The tplink 2412D omni-directional antenna, had the receive and transmit gain I needed. TPLink has three other models 701ND,801ND and 901ND that has Power over Ethernet built in from the manufacture.The wa5110g is a legacy device now so your options will be limited unless you find another access point or router. What I did as shown below was to use Styrofoam meat coolers to install my wifi devices in, it was cheap in cost and it works to keep the weather out. I used a small 1/2" board on the inside bottom, and a 2"x4" on the outside bottom, and used 3" deck screws to secure both pieces together. All desktop AP, routers have mounting groves on their bottom, and you will have to find two small screws to use to mount the unit. The wa5110g had them included but other manufactures may not. I'm currently looking for a dual band unit and I have my interests in the EnGenius ENH710EXT its is a little pricey but my use requires it.
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